M27 - need a hand, please!

Questions and answers about processing in StarTools and how to accomplish certain tasks.

Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby Rkonrad » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:29 pm

Despite the challenges to your data, I was able to process this. It's quite cropped but here it is:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/rkonrad/M8z03o
I used life - isolate to help with the noise as well as bin quite a bit.

Nice tracking, stars etc. I can't wait to see your results once light frames are longer.



Here's the log file:

Loading luminance channel data
File loaded [/home/rkonrad/Downloads/ya/MasterStack_16.fts].
---
Type of Data: Linear, was not Bayered, or was Bayered + white balanced
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 50.00%)/(400.00%)/(+2.00 bits)]
Image Size 5838 x 3564 pixels
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [5838 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [3564 pixels (-0)]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [2120 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [1391 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [4888 pixels (-950)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [3305 pixels (-259)]
Undo
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [2075 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [1129 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [5201 pixels (-637)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [3459 pixels (-105)]
--- Wipe
Parameter [Mode] set to [Correct Color & Brightness]
Parameter [Temporary AutoDev] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [3 pixels]
Parameter [Drop Off Point] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Corner Aggressiveness] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [3.6 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [877 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [977 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1146 pixels (-1980)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [1221 pixels (-1109)]
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [100 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [2043 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [1257 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [2109 pixels (-1017)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [1330 pixels (-1000)]
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [No]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [2.00]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [Full]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.28]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [2.10]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [61 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 70.71%)/(200.00%)/(+1.00 bits)]
Image Size 2210 x 1647 pixels
--- Deconvolution
Parameter [Image Type] set to [Deep Space]
Parameter [Mask Behavior] set to [De-ring Mask Gaps, Hide Result]
Parameter [Radius] set to [2.2 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [6]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [2.47 (smoother, less detail)]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [8.0 pixels]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [10 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [(scale/noise reduction 70.71%)/(200.00%)/(+1.00 bits)]
Image Size 1562 x 1164 pixels
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [No]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [4.30]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [Full]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [141 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.16]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.50]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Filter Type] set to [Distance Weighted Outlier Rejection]
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [4.5 pixels]
--- Wavelet De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [90 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [6]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [4.5 pixels]
Parameter [Read Noise Compensation] set to [Off]
Parameter [Smoothness] set to [75 %]
--- Life
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Power of Inverse]
Parameter [Inherit Brightness, Color] set to [Off]
Parameter [Output Glow Only] set to [No]
Parameter [Airy Disk Sampling] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [64 pixels]
Parameter [Glow Threshold] set to [12 %]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [34 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Magic
Parameter [Mode] set to [Tighten]
Parameter [Mask Grow] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [1 pixels]
--- Color
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [No]
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [9.90]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [9.90]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [21 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
--- Layer
Parameter [Layer Mode] set to [Blend]
Parameter [Cap Mode] set to [Clip]
Parameter [Brightness
UndoMask Mode] set to [Off]
Parameter [Filter Type] set to [Gaussian (Fg)]
Parameter [Blend Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Filter Kernel Radius] set to [2.5 pixels]
Parameter [Offset X] set to [0.0 pixels]
Parameter [Offset Y] set to [0.0 pixels]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Power] set to [1.00]


Cheers Richard
Rkonrad
 
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby devonshire » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:59 pm

Gosh! Very nice - thank you so much!

I'll try this tonight!

- Bob
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby devonshire » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:44 pm

Richard,

I haven't gotten lost :-)

Having some trouble reproducing success (the log doesn't log *everything*, so I'm guessing at a couple of points).
I'll fiddle with this for a bit, and come back with a few questions later, if that's ok.

- Bob
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby devonshire » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:22 am

Richard,

No joy, the image goes monochrome on its first trip thru [Color], flips back and forth a bit through the following steps, and then finally settles on mono at the end. I've been through it 5 or 6 times with variations and end up in about the same place, so I'm missing something.

I've lots of questions about why you used the steps/settings you did, but maybe the first thing is to get through reproducing them, and as I said, not everything makes it to the log, so I'm guessing at a couple of points

Setting Saturation to zero drives the color out on the first trip through [Color], and it remains so after its first trip through [Life].

Just to checkpoint progress... is a monochrome image expected after [Life]#1 ?

Also wondering about the mask used for [Deconvolution], following that. Is it just Auto>Stars, or did you do something more with it.?

Thanks!

- Bob
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby Rkonrad » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:05 am

Sorry for your frustrations Bob - been there.

I'm a bit busy now but will hopefully post a video in several days to how you more clearly what I did.
I tend to go to the colour module at the beginning to remove all colour so as to view the image clearly (to me). Its totally not necessary but I prefer it - adding colour then near the end of tracking.. The denconvelution should be done with auto/fat stars. You could mask just stars in general but they should be generously masked. I will hopefully follow up soon. Cheers. Richard
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby devonshire » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:14 am

Thanks, Richard!

Looking forward to that video. I did make one interesting discovery while trying to replicate your steps...

That ROI you used in the second AutoDev...took me a while to figure out where it was, and then realized that it was a small slice of that very bright star beside the dumbbell.
Interesting result from that. The star field cleans up very nicely (although the dumbbell is undersized, etc.) when I use a similar slice. Doesn't last when Wipe gets hold of it, but that's a different problem. :-)

What's up with the ROI, though? I thought that the (Autodev) ROI was a region I wanted optimized, but it seems more like an influencer that affects other parts of the image. I can push the lower left bright/noisy corner around by picking areas near it, etc. Looks like I've completely misunderstood what ROI is doing. Progress, I guess :-)

- Bob
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby Rkonrad » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:39 am

I'll try to get some time in on Tuesday or so for the video - hope I come up with the same results.

I discovered I could control the stars and background noise better by centering my roi over a bright star. It doesn't do much for the main image but m27 being rather nebulous and indistinct, I thought I would try it. I've tried that with other planetary nebulas like the Helix and it works rather well. Also, I do wipe first - then the roi mentioned. More to follow.

Cheers

Richard
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby Rkonrad » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:39 pm

Here is a video that will hopefully be helpful for you! https://youtu.be/tNidlGREqJ8

Cheers Richard

Let me know if you need any more clarification.
Rkonrad
 
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby devonshire » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:19 pm

Richard,

Well done - thank you very much! Crisp video with lots of 'why' content. Much appreciated.

Don't believe the view count on the video (6) - I've already watched a couple of times, and will be doing work-throughs until I get the hang of it.

Question: I see that when you are in Autodev, you have sliders for the X and Y coordinates of the ROI, as well as an outline on the image. I don't have those - are you running one of the Alpha versions? I'm on 'stable'.

Thanks again!

- Bob
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Re: M27 - need a hand, please!

Postby Rkonrad » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:39 pm

You're welcome. Yes I'm using the bleeding end version.
Its more updated more features. I believe ivo has recommended we use that.

Richard
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