I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Questions and answers about processing in StarTools and how to accomplish certain tasks.
xonefs
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 am

I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by xonefs »

I'm having more struggles with the color module, this time with SHO images. I spend a lot of time processing, then when it gets to color I play with settings and try different combinations and it always looks like crap and I can't get the level I want. Is it also problems beforehand in my processing?

For SHO images I tend to get mustard colors instead of gold and then some unwanted color cast somewhere else- instead of smooth nice and rich tones.

working in pix previously I generally had good colors as a starting doing a basic straight RGB SHO combine and then using some SCNR to take care of green, and things just looked good after doing that. but messing with sliders here I can't seem to get it.

It's also possible I couldn't see my other mistakes well before coloring.

my latest after butchering it in the color module:
Image
then after I run denoise and turn off tracking I can't seem to restore to give it another attempt as it is grayed out.

Is anyone doing higher level SHO or general astro processing in startools and have full videos of workflow? it would bee helpful if I could see how people work making the kind of images I want. Most vids I found seem oriented more towards beginner DSLR type images, which is fine but not the results and type of stuff I'm looking for.
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by Stefan B »

Have you tried the SHO(HST) preset? How does that look like?

Did you map SII to red, Ha to green and OIII to blue in Compose?

Regards
Stefan
xonefs
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 am

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by xonefs »

Stefan B wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:49 am Have you tried the SHO(HST) preset? How does that look like?

Did you map SII to red, Ha to green and OIII to blue in Compose?

Regards
Stefan
Yes and yes- that is a tweaked SHO(HST) preset

I just find it very hard to use the color module and balance colors. Tried the different channel combination mixes for SHO and none really get there either. I try using max RGB mode and messing with color bias to get a good balance- I just wish there was an easier way to balance the colors and get closer that just worked or something that was more automated to achieve a balance- and with more control over specific hues. Maybe there is and I'm missing it? Other modules beforehand seem easier to get good results without lots of trial and error. It seems very tedious and unintuitive trying to adjust each RGB color bias very incrementally.
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by Stefan B »

Mmhhh...i don't do mono stuff myself but I took several opportunities to process SHO with data sets of people from the forum. As far as I can remember I always got a hubble palette like look with the HST preset. Would you mind sharing the three stacks for S, H and O? Would be interested to try. If it's of interest you can of course have the log file to see what parameters were chosen.

Regards
Stefan
xonefs
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 am

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by xonefs »

Stefan B wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:10 pm Mmhhh...i don't do mono stuff myself but I took several opportunities to process SHO with data sets of people from the forum. As far as I can remember I always got a hubble palette like look with the HST preset. Would you mind sharing the three stacks for S, H and O? Would be interested to try. If it's of interest you can of course have the log file to see what parameters were chosen.

Regards
Stefan
files: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

log:

Code: Select all

tarTools 1.8.515alpha
Sun Oct 24 03:13:40 2021
-----------------------------------------------------------
Loading red channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/m8-Sulphur_II.fits].
Loading green channel data
Loading green channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/m8-Hydrogen-alpha.fits].
Loading blue channel data
Loading blue channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/m8-Oxygen_III.fits].
--- Compose
Parameter [Luminance, Color] set to [L + Synthetic L From RGB, RGB]
Parameter [Color Ch. Interpolation] set to [On]
Parameter [NB Accents Type] set to [Ha/S-II from NB filter]
Parameter [Lum Total Exposure] set to [Not set]
Parameter [Blue Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Green Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Parameter [Red Total Exposure] set to [1h00m (60m) (3600s)]
Image size is 8539 x 6239
Type of Data: Linear, was not Bayered, or was Bayered + white balanced
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.1 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [8539 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [6239 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Rotate
Parameter [Angle] set to [357.8]
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [8335 pixels]
Parameter [Y1] set to [600 pixels]
Parameter [X2] set to [259 pixels (-8513)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [5690 pixels (-872)]
Image size is 8078 x 5090
Redoing stretch of linear data
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.1 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [8078 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [5090 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Bin
Parameter [Scale] set to [scale 60.00% / +1.47 bits / +0.67x SNR improvement]
Image size is 4846 x 3054
--- Wipe
Parameter [Synthetic Dark/Bias] set to [Off]
Parameter [Gradient Edge Behavior] set to [Bounce Back]
Parameter [Synthetic Flats] set to [Off]
Parameter [Sampling Precision] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Gradient Falloff] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Synth. Bias Edge Area] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Gradient Aggressiveness] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Correlation Filtering] set to [Off]
Redoing stretch of linear data
--- Auto Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.4 pixels]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 pixels]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [4846 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [3054 pixels (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Global Mode Align, Darken Only]
Parameter [Precision] set to [128 x 128 pixels]
Parameter [Shadow Detail Size] set to [24 pixels]
Parameter [Locality] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Shadow Dyn Range Alloc] set to [71 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Global Mode Align]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Shadow Detail Size] set to [10 pixels]
Parameter [Locality] set to [52 %]
Parameter [Shadow Dyn Range Alloc] set to [50 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [No]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Global Mode Align, Darken Only]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 pixels]
Parameter [Shadow Detail Size] set to [18 pixels]
Parameter [Locality] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Shadow Dyn Range Alloc] set to [57 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Tracked]
Parameter [Gamma Highlight (Tame)] set to [UNKNOWN]
Parameter [Gamma Shadow (Lift)] set to [1.00]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [1.25]
Parameter [Signal Flow] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Context Size] set to [50 pixels]
Parameter [Shadows Detail Boost] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Highlights Detail Boost] set to [5 %]
--- Wavelet Sharpen
Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Large]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[cut out mask gibberish]

-- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Protection] set to [Shadow/Highlights]
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [4 pixels]
Parameter [Amount] set to [318 %]
Parameter [High SNR Size Bias] set to [85 %]
Parameter [Low SNR Size Bias] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Dark/Light Enhance] set to [50% / 50%]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

--- Spatially Variant PSF Deconvolution
Parameter [PSF Resampling] set to [None]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Model] set to [Moffat Beta=4.765 (Trujillo) (Atmosphere)]
Parameter [Sampled PSF Area] set to [15x15]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Radius] set to [1.5 pixels]
Parameter [Synthetic Iterations] set to [10x]
Parameter [Spatial Error] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Deringing Fuzz] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Deringing Detect] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Dyn. Range Extension] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Linearity Cutoff] set to [85 %]
Parameter [Sampled Iterations] set to [10x]
Parameter [Deringing Amount] set to [0.80]
File saved [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/NewComposite pre color.tiff].
--- Color
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Artistic, Not Detail Aware]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [RGB Ratio, CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Matrix] set to [SHO 40SII+60Ha,70Ha+30OIII,100OIII]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [1.7]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [3.4]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [280 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.62]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [7.77]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.01]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Highlight Repair] set to [8 pixels]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

--- Shrink
Parameter [Mode] set to [Tighten]
Parameter [Halo Extend] set to [1 pixels]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [10]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [0.85]
Parameter [Color Taming] set to [2 pixels]
Parameter [De-ringing] set to [Off]
Parameter [Un-glow Strength] set to [Off]
Parameter [Un-glow Kernel] set to [Off]
--- Super Structure
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask Darken]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply, Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Brightness, Color] set to [Process Both]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Local Median]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.75]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 pixels]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
File saved [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/NewComposite pre color.tiff].
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [4.7 pixels]
Parameter [Walking Noise Size] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Walking Noise Angle] set to [0]
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [99 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Equalized Grain] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Grain Dispersion] set to [6.1 pixels]
File saved [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/NewComposite pre color denoise.tiff].
--- Color
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Reduce Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Method Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Matrix] set to [Identity (OFF)]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [9.9]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [9.9]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Blue Bias Reduce] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Green Bias Reduce] set to [1.01]
Parameter [Red Bias Reduce] set to [1.01]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 pixels]
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Highlight Repair] set to [Off]
File saved [/Users/jason/Pictures/Astro deep sky SVX/M8 lagoon/NewComposite pre color denoise color 2.tiff].



this is the first mono SHO image I did last year with following a very annoying and probably 'wrong' pixinsight workflow, but it still looks way better than most stuff I have been able to get out of working in ST. I did get a pretty decent Veil nebula out of ST but it had to be touched up in pixinsight, but that target is not quite as nebulous as some of the images I've had issue with.
Image
I guess that's the kind of colors and depth I want, even though I see issues with it that could be much improved with a more proper workflow if I could get it to work here.
Mike in Rancho
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Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Alrighty then. :D Multiple things to discuss...

First, awesome data, glad you linked it. :thumbsup:

Second, is it a web admin setting that can make ST force open a new tab when clicking links? If so, I think it would be a good one. It does that on CN. But here if I go to download data from Drive or Dropbox, the ST page gets replaced. I know I can right-click-open-new-tab, but I always forget.

Thirdsie, I notice you are not using the latest and greatest, even of the alphas - the most recent of which had some alterations to HDR including to help speed things up. Get the new 518 beta.

Four, I didn't double check by running through your log, but when I rotated and cropped I noticed there's not a lot of room to get everything, due to the one shifted channel. Looking at your final field of view, I am wondering if you got all the missed overlaps cropped off - possibly impacting wipe and/or autodev (unless you masked it in Wipe?). [EDIT: I think you were good actually. Excellent rotate and crop!]

Next, the possibilities here really seem endless to me, or nearly so. Much fun to work with, both as to detail and then color. I smashed this way down with a bin to 25% just for quick working, and then only used synthetic SVD, but the color options seemed to be quite wide. You can take the HST default changes or alter them. Ultimately I kept Artistic-NDA and RGB Ratio-CIELab, but you don't have to. Nor do you have use one of the SHO matrix options, and can go straight up SHO instead. It's not entirely intuitive, since we are working in false color NB and the SHO options have various channel blends, but still just a matter of finding the mapping you want and then adjusting saturations and the color bias levels.

Of course targets are all different, I'm not sure I could match up to your Rosette, though maybe I could get close. What's done earlier may change points of emphasis too. I didn't go crazy with contrast and also used a soft HDR.

Which kind of color scheme were you looking to end up at?

I'll try again by walking through your log exactly as you did, to see how you ended up there.

xonefs lagoon a possibility ST8 1B.jpg
xonefs lagoon a possibility ST8 1B.jpg (489.23 KiB) Viewed 4400 times
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by Stefan B »

ST crashed multiple times upon trying to open the files. On two machines. Admittedly pretty old ones. But the only ones I have at hand. So I'm out :doh:
xonefs
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 am

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by xonefs »

Thanks for giving it a shot. Yeah this is my challenge I know my data is generally pretty good and should be capable of producing the level/quality of images I want but I struggle to get there.

The attempt above looks better than mine and from a color standpoint but still not quite. I think I am also having an issue earlier on processing and being able to get the detail out of them. If you look at the individual channels in another program after a basic stretch you can see there is a ton of depth and detail (look at S II in particular but also others), and when processing in ST I think I am bringing it out but once applying color realize I didn't and it is super flat and those details and depth to ridges with separation are not there (I am also noticing similar in your attempt- how do you bring out that definition on all those ridges of nebulosity that seem to get muted in ST?). compare to individual channel data initially or even while you are processing before color module where those features seem more prominent. I had the same thing last time trying to process cygnus wall data in comparison to pix workflow which I think I talked about previously on here but hadn't then resolved either how to fix it.

I wish I could see some start to finish workflow of anyone creating the kind of images I'm looking for with typical decent mono amateur data like this on the latest startools release. most vids I've been able to find are much older versions of ST now where the info isn't as relevant with different modules and either like hubble data or more problematic dslr/OSC data.
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Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by admin »

xonefs wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:34 pm Thanks for giving it a shot. Yeah this is my challenge I know my data is generally pretty good and should be capable of producing the level/quality of images I want but I struggle to get there.

The attempt above looks better than mine and from a color standpoint but still not quite. I think I am also having an issue earlier on processing and being able to get the detail out of them. If you look at the individual channels in another program after a basic stretch you can see there is a ton of depth and detail (look at S II in particular but also others), and when processing in ST I think I am bringing it out but once applying color realize I didn't and it is super flat and those details and depth to ridges with separation are not there (I am also noticing similar in your attempt- how do you bring out that definition on all those ridges of nebulosity that seem to get muted in ST?). compare to individual channel data initially or even while you are processing before color module where those features seem more prominent. I had the same thing last time trying to process cygnus wall data in comparison to pix workflow which I think I talked about previously on here but hadn't then resolved either how to fix it.

I wish I could see some start to finish workflow of anyone creating the kind of images I'm looking for with typical decent mono amateur data like this on the latest startools release. most vids I've been able to find are much older versions of ST now where the info isn't as relevant with different modules and either like hubble data or more problematic dslr/OSC data.
Quite a few things to unpack here.

1. Color processing is entirely separated from luminance processing - if you see detail "disappear" (or appear for that matter) your screen's calibration is off, or you are really pushing saturation to cause out-of-gamut colors, or you are choosing a compositing (LRGB Emulation) method that explicitly allows for this. Or there is a bug in StarTools (but I am not aware of any).
2. You obviously cannot color balance narrowband images; there is no concept of a white point. What you are doing in the Color module when processing narrowband, is balancing the strenght of the three narrowband signals.
It seems very tedious and unintuitive trying to adjust each RGB color bias very incrementally.
3. On the contrary, things could not be more intuitive. The red, green and blue sliders, directly and linearly control S-II, Ha, and O-III.
4. The Rosette, as a HII area, is not in the same evolutionary stage as M8. As a consequence, it will look somewhat different.

I think it would really help to take a step back and, rather than processing by trial-and-error, "have a plan" so to speak when using a module. Pulling sliders without understanding what is being governed by them, indeed can becomes quite tedious.

Such a plan starts with better understanding what sort of signal you acquired, what is happening to your signal as you process it, and how StarTools treats it. For example, in StarTools, there is virtually no difference between processing a DSLR dataset or a complex composite due to the strict separation (and parallel processing) of luminance and chrominance. There are no special secrets, techniques or workflows needed to process complex composites. This is not PI - no hacks are needed; signal flow is optimal and respected 100%.

Using only defaults and presets, your dataset looks like this in the Color module with the SHO(HST) preset as a starting point;
StarTools_2787.jpg
StarTools_2787.jpg (331.51 KiB) Viewed 4360 times
This is incidentally, extremely close to all other SHO M8 renditions in StarTools when using the SHO(HST) preset. That is, of course, because ST respects the actual recorded signal (e.g. emission concentrations). It's the "science" part of astrophotography - repeat an experiment and you should be able to achieve the same results.

If the defaults are too pastel, you can bump up the saturation in the highlights or shadows;
StarTools_2788.jpg
StarTools_2788.jpg (338.09 KiB) Viewed 4360 times
If you prefer S-II to poke through more (yielding a more copper tone), increase red, etc.;
StarTools_2789.jpg
StarTools_2789.jpg (329.51 KiB) Viewed 4360 times
Be absolutely sure to calibrate you screen properly when processing (and viewing) color images, as many consumer-oriented screens are way off and are set to make colors "pop". Compared side-by-side, a well-calibrated screen will shows a lot more muted colors until you really push the saturation.

SCNR (or Cap Green in StarTools) is not a color calibration tool. It is meant for booting green-dominant coloring that has been ascertained to be aberrant (e.g. things like chrominance noise). You should only use this a a last resort in case of a data issue.

If you find any remnant green offensive, then you can of course, reduce the strength of the responsible wavelength. Because you imported your dataset as SHO:RGB and you have chosen a SHO mapping Matrix, green is mostly caused by Ha-dominance in a region.

Because you imported SHO:RGB, modifying the green slider modifies the Ha contribution regardless of how the matrix subsequently mapped it. In other words, by using the green bias slider, no matter how Ha ends up being used in your coloring, you are purely controlling the Ha strength. No other band.

E.g. you could reduce Ha (green) to arrive at this;
StarTools_2790.jpg
StarTools_2790.jpg (264.79 KiB) Viewed 4360 times
Etc. etc.

There is just one important thing to remember; the coloring in your image should, just like detail/luminance, convey important information about reality. In this case it conveys, per-pixel, what emissions are relatively dominant. Red pixel? S-II is dominant. Green pixel? Ha is dominant. Blue pixel? O-III is dominant. Same goes for mixes of the three primary colors. Yellow? S-II and Ha are roughly equally dominant (but O-III is less dominant in that area), Purple? S-II and O-III are equally dominant (but Ha is less dominant in that area). And so on, and so forth.

StarTools is not in the business of helping people "fudge" coloring into something "pretty" if that coloring encroaches on an accurate representation of reality. In astrophotography, we are dealing with... well... photography and documenting reality. You have lots of leeway in how you wish to do this, but the goal is always to document reality. As such, any operations that destroy (or invent) signal and meaning (whether they be detail/luminance or chrominance/color) are much harder to perform in ST.

Does this help?
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
xonefs
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:30 am

Re: I think my images are going well until I try to color them in the color module

Post by xonefs »

Hello, thanks for answering. It does and doesn't, since I'm still not sure if I can achieve what I want to in ST or how to go about doing it and where the limitation is. As far as scientific accuracy of color- well I'm not really concerned with that as most us are not scientists and choosing one of the complex percentage ratios of channels and adjusting bias to achieve a certain look doesn't seem much different than making some adjustments to taste. (how useful is a SHO 60% SII+40% HA, 30% SII+30%HA+40%OIII, 50%HA+50%OIII blend in conveying information or anything useful scientifically to a viewer?). I just want it within reason and to create separation. I'm not looking to invent pure fantasy but if the end result isn't aesthetically pleasing within a reasonable range, and on a level comparable to other images people are creating out there, then there's not much point in doing this for me.

here's a lagoon example I found that seems reasonable to strive for (both in detail and color level): https://www.astrobin.com/21hu4v/?nc=user

is this not grounded in reality and unreasonable? I am equally referring to depth and detail and not just color. I see this detail in my channels before attempting to process in ST.

forgetting SHO colors for a moment here's a nice HOO example that also looks realistic to me and has nice detail: https://www.astrobin.com/5pa3ln/B/?nc=picks

is that reasonable? Looking specifically at the structures around the edge look much better detail than after I processed or the other attempts I've seen here, and coloring seems natural.
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