Question about HaOIII-RGB

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mcbbcn
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 am

Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

Hi Ivo,

Thanks to your guiding, I've learned how to process an HaRGB image, so I understand the work flow. Now, if I wanted to add OIII to the same workflow, how would I do it? How will the workflow I've learned for HaRGB would be different if I added OIII signal to the HaRGB?

Thanks for your help,

M.
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Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by admin »

Hi Miquel,

Nothing too different, but creating a synthetic luminance frame is slightly trickier (oh how I want to fix this ASAP! :evil:);
Here too, you'll need to Figure out the ratios for the final luminance blend from the exposure times. In case of HaOIIIRGB, you'll have

1. Your RGB blend/average (assuming they're all the same exposure length)
2. Ha
3. OIII

Let's say you have;
R+G+B = 36 minutes accumulatively
Ha = 90 minutes accumulatively
OIII = 70 minutes accumulatively

To get your synthetic luminance frame, first blend two, then blend the result with the third data set.
To figure out in the Layer module what blend amount to use, look at the ratios.
For example let's blend the RGB and Ha first. We have 36 minutes RGB + 90 minutes Ha = 126 in total, approx 29% (= 36 / 126 * 100%) of which is RGB and 71% of which is Ha.
So to create a RGB + Ha blend, use a blend strength of 71% (if you have Ha as the foreground layer).
Now you have the correct ratio for a RGB + Ha blend, but we want to add OIII as well. It's easy;
We have 36 minutes RGB + 90 minutes Ha + 70 minutes OIII = 196 minutes in total, approx 64% ( (36 + 90) / 196 * 100%) of which is HaRGB and 36% of which is OIII.
So to add the right amount of OIII to the HaRGB blend, use a blend strength of 36% (if you have OIII as the foreground layer).

Does this help?

Happy 2013 by the way! :obscene-drinkingcheers:
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
mcbbcn
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 am

Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

Yes, I'll give it a try. Thanks Ivo! Happy New Year!
mcbbcn
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 am

Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

admin wrote:Hi Miquel,

Nothing too different, but creating a synthetic luminance frame is slightly trickier (oh how I want to fix this ASAP! :evil:);
Hi Ivo,

Did you get to fix the above one? I'm about to give the HaOIIIRGB a try, but I wanted to check if you made any enhancements to the above process that you suggested, since we last talked about this processing step or I should follow the steps that you suggested above with no changes.

Thanks for your help,

M.
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Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by admin »

mcbbcn wrote: Hi Ivo,

Did you get to fix the above one? I'm about to give the HaOIIIRGB a try, but I wanted to check if you made any enhancements to the above process that you suggested, since we last talked about this processing step or I should follow the steps that you suggested above with no changes.

Thanks for your help,

M.
Sorry, no (public) enhancements to this procedure as of yet. :cry:
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
mcbbcn
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 am

Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

Also, one more question. Looking at the new LRGB module, I don't think I can input %'s as I did before, so what sequence do you suggest for blending my integrated images. So far, I have:

RGB = 120min.. (Blue=72.5min/Green= 27.5min/Red=20min.)
Ha = 90 min.
OIII = 137min.

Thanks for your help,

M.
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Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by admin »

mcbbcn wrote:Also, one more question. Looking at the new LRGB module, I don't think I can input %'s as I did before, so what sequence do you suggest for blending my integrated images. So far, I have:

RGB = 120min.. (Blue=72.5min/Green= 27.5min/Red=20min.)
Ha = 90 min.
OIII = 137min.

Thanks for your help,

M.
All this is of course dependent on whether you want to create a synthetic luminance frame from all this data, or just some of it.

For example; a weighted synthetic luminance frame for just R, G, B;
  • First add red and green (20 + 27.5) = 47.5 mins total, 20/47.5 = a blend of 42.1% red, 57.9% green
  • Now that we have RG (47.5 mins) , add B (72.5 mins); 47.5 + 72.5 = 120mins, 47.5 / 120 = a blend of 39.5% for RG, 60.5% for B
  • We now have a weighted synthetic luminance for RGB
Adding Ha to our synthetic weighted RGB luminance;
  • We have weighted RGB (120 mins) and Ha (90 mins) = 210 mins total, 120/210/ = 57.1% RGB, 42.9% Ha.
Adding OIII to our synthetic weighted HaRGB luminance;
  • We have weighted HaRGB (210 mins) and OIII (137 mins) = 347 mins total, 210/347 = 60.5% HaRGB, 39.5% OIII.
You now have a weighted OIIIHaRGB synthetic luminance; save it.

Now, assuming you still want correct colors (why else go through all this trouble! :twisted:), this OIIIHaRGB can now be imported as your new 'L' in the LRGB module, while you import RGB as normal for your colors.
What *has* changed since posting last, is the Color module (as of 1.3.5). The StarTools color module (as of 1.3.5) will make sure your colors are still correct (thanks to the Color Constancy algorithm), while you will be able to see all the detail from the OIII and Ha that you gathered as well (the Color Constancy algorithm will make sure the Ha and OIII only psychovisually modify luminance, but not color).
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
mcbbcn
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:28 am

Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

admin wrote:
mcbbcn wrote:Also, one more question. Looking at the new LRGB module, I don't think I can input %'s as I did before, so what sequence do you suggest for blending my integrated images. So far, I have:

RGB = 120min.. (Blue=72.5min/Green= 27.5min/Red=20min.)
Ha = 90 min.
OIII = 137min.

Thanks for your help,

M.
Now, assuming you still want correct colors (why else go through all this trouble! :twisted:), this OIIIHaRGB can now be imported as your new 'L' in the LRGB module, while you import RGB as normal for your colors.
What *has* changed since posting last, is the Color module (as of 1.3.5). The StarTools color module (as of 1.3.5) will make sure your colors are still correct (thanks to the Color Constancy algorithm), while you will be able to see all the detail from the OIII and Ha that you gathered as well (the Color Constancy algorithm will make sure the Ha and OIII only psychovisually modify luminance, but not color).
I'll give it a try and see what happens. I was getting pretty weird colors (blue & red in the same star)... :think: ....but I'll follow your steps and see what happens.

Thank you so much!

M.
mcbbcn
Posts: 61
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Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by mcbbcn »

Hi Ivo,

What filter type should by using?

Also, I see that the Blend amount is for the foreground image, so if I use your first step:

First add red and green (20 + 27.5) = 47.5 mins total, 20/47.5 = a blend of 42.1% red, 57.9% green

I assume that I need to set the blend amount to 57.9% (because I first loaded the red, and then the green, and then I have to do a Copy, Paste->Bg, right? ;)

I always get a bit confuse with the copy Bg or copy Fg.

Thanks for your guidance.

M.
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Re: Question about HaOIII-RGB

Post by admin »

mcbbcn wrote:Hi Ivo,

What filter type should by using?
Just disregard the filter type. By default it's set to Gaussian 1.0 (which does nothing).

mcbbcn wrote:Also, I see that the Blend amount is for the foreground image, so if I use your first step:

First add red and green (20 + 27.5) = 47.5 mins total, 20/47.5 = a blend of 42.1% red, 57.9% green

I assume that I need to set the blend amount to 57.9% (because I first loaded the red, and then the green, and then I have to do a Copy, Paste->Bg, right? ;)

I always get a bit confuse with the copy Bg or copy Fg.
Blend Amount governs how much you will see of the foreground. So if it's 0%, you'll only see the background. If it's 100% you'll only see the foreground.
So what you'll want to do is have red in the background and green in the foreground and set blend amount to 57.9%.
Or you could have green in the background and red in the foreground and set blend amount to 42.1%.

Then you 'Copy' the result (the RG blend) , 'Paste->Bg(Background)' and load the next thing you want to blend (let's say B) as the new foreground.
And so forth.
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
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