Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Questions and answers about processing in StarTools and how to accomplish certain tasks.
Mike in Rancho
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Mike in Rancho »

When I was using DSS with all background calibration off, I used kappa sigma. Sure it won't be perfect with the rejection, but should get most outliers, and of course the standard deviation to be used can be changed to be either tighter or looser.

I have been using ASTAP of late for its debayering and (seemingly) better registration, even though I am pretty certain it will perform some type of background equalization for KS rejection. Unsure if I will go back to DSS (especially for its speed) once I start doing more mono. :think:

I admit I don't understand Ivo's explanation of DSS "leaving normalization there." :confusion-shrug: I mean, since the combining and rejection is all meant to create a final stacked file, and the normalizing will (I presume) be done to the levels of one reference frame, then what is there to "put back"?

As mentioned earlier though, one potential snag I see is if DSS does not employ some kind of DAF - though how would it do so automatically?

The other selection mentioned above for DSS - RGB Channel Alignment, is not normalizing, but rather a spatial adjustment. This can be good for chromatic aberration or atmospheric dispersion. Kind of like splitting the file into three RGB channels, running registration on them again as if they were independent files, and then compositing them back together.
Startrek
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Startrek »

Thanks again for all your input
Most valuable

Cheers
Martin
Startrek
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Startrek »

Mike,
On another note , I tried Astap for the first time to stack my data and it wouldn’t load the final stacked image into the viewer ??

Cooled OSC fits files ( 2600MC )
Loaded 76 Lights and Analysed
Loaded 40 Flats and Analysed
Loaded 60 Bias ( Flat Darks ) and Analysed

Stack method Sigma clip average
Bayer pattern auto
Q factor 2.5
De mosaic method Bilinear Interpolation
Alignment Star alignment

Pressed Stack
Stacking completed to 100%
Then it said waiting for colour to be aligned and just timed out ( not responding) ????

Any advice would be appreciated

Clear Skies
Martin
Mike in Rancho
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Hi Martin. Hmmm. :think:

Well indeed if you are getting a timeout before completion, no image would load into the viewer or the results tab. But a timeout seems more like it would be a hardware snag? Or a bug? If it crashed out when writing the file then maybe a file protection issue, but sounds like it didn't get to that spot.

You mentioned color alignment - that sounds like one of the verbotten settings per Ivo's recommendations, perhaps? Per ST, when I use ASTAP I have all the extra features like that turned off. I only turn on Convert OSC (for CFA fits), choose my debayering algorithm (I like astrosimple), and for raw conversion I have it on LibRaw full area. Not that I understand the different dcraw or libraw options.

You might try with just a handful of subs for testing until something works. I can't remember how many ASTAP needs for sigma rejection stacking.

I also tend to go through the calibration backwards nowadays. So I load and analyze (at least the first time through) my dark flats, or I put bias into that tab. Then I go to the flats and do the same. Then I hit the combine and replace F and DF with a master flat. This master flat can then be reused, if applicable, rather than analyzing and combining subs again. Then darks, same thing, analyze and after that hit the button for creating master dark.

I notice you didn't mention anything for darks. :?: ASTAP is a little more manually oriented that way, and does not have a separate bias/offset tab with which it would calibrate every other sub, like DSS would do. So if you don't have anything in the darks tab, I don't see how the math for calibration would work out properly and I believe the flats correction would fail.

So if I only have lights, flats, and bias, I use the bias to create the master flat as noted, and then I use the same bias subs in the darks tab to create a master flat.

Anyway then I go on to analyze the lights, delete subs that have irregular stats compared to the others, and then stack away.

I don't have log saving turned on though, so I would have to run a quick test or two to see why your status is saying color alignment, and then see if mine would hang up also. Is your version of ASTSAP fairly recent?
Mike in Rancho
Posts: 1152
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Ok I ran a real quick test on some recent OSC data. I already had my master flat (which was created using bias if I remember right, loaded into the DF tab) and my master dark. This is what the log screen wrote out, if it helps!

Code: Select all

10:13:16  OSC, demosaic method AstroSimple
10:13:16  Stack method Sigma clip average
10:13:16  Oversize 0 pixels
10:13:16  Analysing images.
10:13:16  Stacking (Sigma clip average), HOLD ESC key to abort.
10:13:16  Analysing darks.
10:13:16  Master darks(s) ready.
10:13:16  Analysing flats.
10:13:16  Master flat(s) ready.
10:13:16  Reference image selected based on quality (star_detections/hfd) is: D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-10-54___30.00s_0000_fix.dng.fits
10:13:16  █ █ █ █ █ █ Method "Sigma Clip average" does not work well for a few images. Try method "Average". █ █ █ █ █ █ 
10:13:17  Loading master dark file D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\DARK\master_dark_50x30s_at_999C_2022-06-16.fit
10:13:17  Loading master flat file D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\FLAT\master_flat_corrected_with_flat_darks__30xF_50xFD_2022-06-16.fit
10:13:18  Adding light file: 1-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-13-19___30.00s_0004_fix.dng.fits dark compensated to light average. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:19  Creating grayscale x 2 binning image for solving/star alignment.
10:13:25  Adding light file: 2-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-11-30___30.00s_0001_fix.dng.fits dark compensated to light average. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:26  Creating grayscale x 2 binning image for solving/star alignment.
10:13:27  230 of 231 quads selected matching within 0.003 tolerance.  Solution x:=0.999972*x+ 0.000008*y+ 0.092449,  y:=0.000029*x+ 0.999999*y+ -1.144319
10:13:31  Adding light file: 3-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-06___30.00s_0002_fix.dng.fits dark compensated to light average. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:32  Creating grayscale x 2 binning image for solving/star alignment.
10:13:33  238 of 239 quads selected matching within 0.003 tolerance.  Solution x:=0.999983*x+ 0.000029*y+ -0.080692,  y:=0.000035*x+ 0.999944*y+ -0.756077
10:13:37  Adding light file: 4-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-43___30.00s_0003_fix.dng.fits dark compensated to light average. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:38  Creating grayscale x 2 binning image for solving/star alignment.
10:13:38  227 of 227 quads selected matching within 0.003 tolerance.  Solution x:=0.999990*x+ 0.000030*y+ -0.069944,  y:=0.000047*x+ 0.999953*y+ -0.395764
10:13:42  Adding light file: 5-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-10-54___30.00s_0000_fix.dng.fits dark compensated to light average. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:43  Creating grayscale x 2 binning image for solving/star alignment.
10:13:44  242 of 242 quads selected matching within 0.003 tolerance.  Solution x:=0.999979*x+ 0.000014*y+ 0.021829,  y:=0.000047*x+ 0.999993*y+ -0.947527
10:13:49  Calculating pixels σ of light file 1-5 D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-13-19___30.00s_0004_fix.dng.fits Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:13:55  Calculating pixels σ of light file 2-5 D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-11-30___30.00s_0001_fix.dng.fits Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:00  Calculating pixels σ of light file 3-5 D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-06___30.00s_0002_fix.dng.fits Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:05  Calculating pixels σ of light file 4-5 D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-43___30.00s_0003_fix.dng.fits Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:10  Calculating pixels σ of light file 5-5 D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-10-54___30.00s_0000_fix.dng.fits Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:17  Combining 1-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-13-19___30.00s_0004_fix.dng.fits", ignoring outliers. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:28  Combining 2-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-11-30___30.00s_0001_fix.dng.fits", ignoring outliers. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:38  Combining 3-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-06___30.00s_0002_fix.dng.fits", ignoring outliers. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:48  Combining 4-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-12-43___30.00s_0003_fix.dng.fits", ignoring outliers. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:14:58  Combining 5-5 "D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\2022-06-15_22-10-54___30.00s_0000_fix.dng.fits", ignoring outliers. Using 50 dark(s), 30 flat(s), 50 flat-dark(s)
10:15:09  Adjusting colour levels and colour smooth are disabled. See tab "stack method"
10:15:12  █ █ █  Saving result 5 as D:\ASTRO\PRE-PROCESSING\M13 RGB 6-15-22\DNGMDS\LIGHT\no_object, 2022-06-16, 5x30L, 00 mm f00, D5300_stacked.fits
Finished in 117 sec. The FITS header contains a detailed history.
Startrek
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Startrek »

Thanks Mike
I try your suggestions
If Im still wrestling with it after a few hours,I think I’ll revert back to DSS as it’s always worked for me

Martin
decay
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:28 pm
Location: Germany, NRW

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by decay »

Martin, don't be frustrated. I also had problems with my first attempts running ASTAP, but Mike convinced my to go on ;) If you like, take some time and a quite moment and try again step by step. I was too unfocused and impatient at first and just wasted time.

But as said, sticking with DSS will be fine as well, at least from my point of view.

Would you perhaps like to give us feedback later on, about your decision(s) and findings?

Best regards, Dietmar.
Startrek
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Startrek »

I’ve given up on Astap
I’ve downloaded it again , followed the Startools pre requisites , load my data correctly and it gets to the final step after stacking and it still hangs or times out ( it’s not my laptop as it is a beast, 32 GB Ram latest i7 processor, 1TB storage )
Sticking with DSS as it’s a proven performer especially with multiple nights capture which I take full advantage of when the sky is clear

Martin
decay
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:28 pm
Location: Germany, NRW

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by decay »

I'm sorry to hear that. :(

I have noticed that ASTAP seems to have bug(s) regarding window handling, threading and/or handling of the windows event loop. But I'm sure you have waited long enough for the result to appear ...

Does the error also occur with only a few images? If so, you could upload some images and we could try out if this is also the case with me and thus somehow related to your data.

Best regards, Dietmar.
Startrek
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:49 am

Re: Startools Prerequisite No Background Calibration

Post by Startrek »

I register and stack the same sets of data in DSS and it works perfectly every time so unfortunately I’m not going to invest anymore time in Astap for stacking
I still use Astap to review my subs which does an excellent job

Cheers for now
Martin
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