M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Questions and answers about processing in StarTools and how to accomplish certain tasks.
fmeireso
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Belgium

M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by fmeireso »

Hi everyone,

Trying to get a descent image from a Ha and RGB stack to get some Ha regions displayed in M81.
Not easy...first of all the ha stack is off course very noisy and furthermore the core of M81 seems to take over quite some red out of the NBaccent module which you don't want.
Sofar that is what i got. Ha regions very subtle, they are there but a bit tiny and maybe a bit too pinkish.
It is something but not quite what is should be imho.
Any suggetions are welcome

The stacks if anyone whants to look
Ha

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ce6g79p0d0m8m ... r.fit?dl=0

OSC
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rybrhu6o7pitw ... B.fit?dl=0
M81Cropped3.jpg
M81Cropped3.jpg (348.41 KiB) Viewed 10279 times
Mike in Rancho
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:05 pm
Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Cool Freddy! :thumbsup:

Will download and give this a try later. I have to rework my own M81-82 also, which I'm still not happy with...
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by Stefan B »

Hi Freddy,

neat image and data! Thanks for giving some fun to the bright moon phase :mrgreen:

I had a go at it with 1.9 and here's an animation of the before/after NBAccent:

M8182_animation(1).gif
M8182_animation(1).gif (239.35 KiB) Viewed 10256 times

And here's a crop of the final image:

M8182_crop.jpg
M8182_crop.jpg (373.62 KiB) Viewed 10256 times

Sorry, I massively binned to 35% in order to accelerate the processing. SVDecon probably could have done more if I hadn't reduced the resolution so much. But anyway, I think it worked quite well. You can of course make the effect more obvious or more subtle using strength and gamma. A matter of personal taste. But as usually I had to revert the NBAccent effect on the stars in the layer module.

I can provide the log if you are interested.

@admin Just a short notice: In 1.9 NBAccent there are two 'Back' buttons but no 'Keep' button ;)

Regards
Stefan
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by Stefan B »

PS. In the animation the NBAccent introduces quite some noise into the image. I didn't bother keeping the result since I hoped that noise reduction would take care of it. That was the case in my eyes.

PPS. I repeatedly read that people had problems introducing the Ha signal into M81 and M82 simultaneously and thus used different parameters for that (in non ST software). Didn't do that here. Would have been maybe even better.
fmeireso
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by fmeireso »

Thanks Stefan

That is indeed a great result :bow-yellow: , pretty much what i had i mind!

Yes please if you can , i would like the log. I guess i will try v1.9 also
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by Stefan B »

Glad you like it, Freddy!

There you go:

Code: Select all

StarTools 1.9.542alpha
Thu Mar 02 20:34:55 2023
-----------------------------------------------------------
Loading red channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\stefa\Pictures\ST Forum\M81 82 Freddy\masterLight_BIN-1_6024x4020_EXPOSURE-180.10s_FILTER-NoFilter_RGB.fit].
Loading green channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\stefa\Pictures\ST Forum\M81 82 Freddy\masterLight_BIN-1_6024x4020_EXPOSURE-180.10s_FILTER-NoFilter_RGB.fit].
Loading blue channel data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\stefa\Pictures\ST Forum\M81 82 Freddy\masterLight_BIN-1_6024x4020_EXPOSURE-180.10s_FILTER-NoFilter_RGB.fit].
Loading NB accent data
File loaded in LRGB module [C:\Users\stefa\Pictures\ST Forum\M81 82 Freddy\masterLight_BIN-1_5202x3464_EXPOSURE-360.00s_FILTER-NoFilter_Mono2_r.fit].
--- Compose
Parameter [Luminance, Color] set to [L + Synthetic L From RGB, RGB]
Parameter [Scene] set to [On]
Parameter [NB Accent Type] set to [Ha/S-II from NB filter]
Parameter [Spectrum and Filters] set to [Full Visual Spectrum (OSC with UV/IR cut or LRGB filter set)]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Widefield Galaxy]
Parameter [Luminance Total Exposure] set to [Not Set]
Parameter [Blue Total Exposure] set to [3h09m (189m) (11340s)]
Parameter [Green Total Exposure] set to [3h09m (189m) (11340s)]
Parameter [Red Total Exposure] set to [3h09m (189m) (11340s)]
Image size is 6024 x 4020
Type of Data: Linear, was not Bayered, or was Bayered + white balanced
--- RoI Optimized Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [Off]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [0 px]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [0 px]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [6024 px (-0)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [4020 px (-0)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Bin
Parameter [Mode] set to [Fractional]
Parameter [Scale] set to [Scale 35.38% / +3.00 bits / +1.83x SNR Improvement]
Image size is 2131 x 1422
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [144 px]
Parameter [Y1] set to [123 px]
Parameter [X2] set to [1924 px (-207)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [1266 px (-156)]
Image size is 1780 x 1143
--- Crop
Parameter [X1] set to [68 px]
Parameter [Y1] set to [55 px]
Parameter [X2] set to [1702 px (-78)]
Parameter [Y2] set to [1099 px (-44)]
Image size is 1634 x 1044
--- Wipe
Parameter [Synthetic Dark/Bias] set to [Off]
Parameter [Gradient Edge Behavior] set to [Absorb 50%]
Parameter [Synthetic Flats] set to [Off]
Parameter [Sampling Precision] set to [256 x 256 px]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [4 px]
Parameter [Gradient Falloff] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Synth. Bias Edge Area] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Gradient Aggressiveness] set to [75 %]
Parameter [Correlation Filtering] set to [Off]
Redoing stretch of linear data
--- RoI Optimized Develop
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [2.2 px]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [18 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [981 px]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [371 px]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1474 px (-160)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [453 px (-591)]
Parameter [Detector Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Contrast
Parameter [Expose Dark Areas] set to [Yes]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Off]
Parameter [Precision] set to [256 x 256 px]
Parameter [Shadow Detail Size] set to [10 px]
Parameter [Locality] set to [73 %]
Parameter [Shadow Dyn Range Alloc] set to [50 %]
--- HDR
Parameter [Signal Flow] set to [Tracked]
Parameter [Quality] set to [Medium]
Parameter [Gamma Shadows (Lift)] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Gamma Highlights (Tame)] set to [1.25]
Parameter [Gamma Smoothen] set to [20.0 px]
Parameter [Context Size] set to [50x50 pixels (3.06% image W, 4.79% image H)]
Parameter [Shadows Detail Boost] set to [30 %]
Parameter [Highlights Detail Boost] set to [30 %]
--- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Large]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[MASK]

--- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Protection] set to [Shadows/Highlights Softclip]
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [4 px]
Parameter [Amount] set to [300 %]
Parameter [highsnrsizebias] set to [85 %]
Parameter [lowsnrsizebias] set to [0 %]
Parameter [Dark/Light Enhance] set to [50% / 50%]
--- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Medium]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[MASK]

--- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Small]
--- SNR-aware Wavelet Sharpening
Parameter [Structure Size] set to [Small]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[MASK]

PSF samples used (10 PSF sample locations, BASE64 encoded)

VFMAAAoAYgYUBC0CggMTBQgDkgPJAqIAuwLcAbcBswOlAbUF3gFwBRsB8QLmAGsB1AA=

--- Spatially Variant PSF Deconvolution
Parameter [PSF Resampling] set to [None]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Model] set to [Circle of Confusion (Optics Only)]
Parameter [Synthetic PSF Radius] set to [1.5 px]
Parameter [Synthetic Iterations] set to [Off]
Parameter [Spatial Error] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Deringing Detect] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Dyn. Range Extension] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Sampled Iterations] set to [10x]
--- Color
Parameter [Bias Slider Mode] set to [Sliders Increase Color Bias]
Parameter [Style] set to [Scientific (Color Constancy)]
Parameter [LRGB Emulation] set to [Straight CIELab Luminance Retention]
Parameter [Matrix] set to [Identity (OFF)]
Parameter [Dark Saturation] set to [5.5]
Parameter [Bright Saturation] set to [5.7]
Parameter [Saturation Amount] set to [189 %]
Parameter [Blue Increase Bias] set to [1.77]
Parameter [Green Increase Bias] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Red Increase Bias] set to [1.50]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Cap Green] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Highlight Repair] set to [10 px]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[MASK]

--- Shrink
Parameter [Mode] set to [Dim]
Parameter [Halo Extend] set to [8 px]
Parameter [Iterations] set to [7]
Parameter [Regularization] set to [0.85]
Parameter [Color Taming] set to [3 px]
Parameter [De-ringing] set to [Off]
Parameter [Un-glow Strength] set to [Off]
Parameter [Un-glowkernel] set to [Off]
--- Super Structure
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask Darken]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Multiply Gamma Correct]
Parameter [Brightness, Color] set to [Process Both]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Local Median]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.75]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 px]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [35 %]
--- Visual Spectrum Narrowband Accent Compositing
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [1.4 px]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [1098 px]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [345 px]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1380 px (-254)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [470 px (-574)]
Parameter [Threshold] set to [16 %]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [50 %]
--- Visual Spectrum Narrowband Accent Compositing
Parameter [Response Simulation] set to [H-alpha/S-II (Red)]
Parameter [Color Modify Input] set to [Luminance]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Luminance]
Parameter [Detail Size] set to [9 px]
Parameter [Brightness Correlation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [3.58]
Parameter [Strength] set to [102 %]
Parameter [Band Balance] set to [50% / 50%]
Undo
Image size is 1634 x 1044
--- Visual Spectrum Narrowband Accent Compositing
Parameter [Ignore Fine Detail <] set to [2.4 px]
Parameter [Outside RoI Influence] set to [15 %]
Parameter [RoI X1] set to [1088 px]
Parameter [RoI Y1] set to [350 px]
Parameter [RoI X2] set to [1384 px (-250)]
Parameter [RoI Y2] set to [478 px (-566)]
Parameter [Threshold] set to [18 %]
Parameter [Shadow Linearity] set to [34 %]
--- Visual Spectrum Narrowband Accent Compositing
Parameter [Response Simulation] set to [H-alpha/S-II (Red)]
Parameter [Color Modify Input] set to [Luminance]
Parameter [UNKNOWN] set to [Luminance]
Parameter [Detail Size] set to [6 px]
Parameter [Brightness Correlation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [2.20]
Parameter [Strength] set to [129 %]
Parameter [Band Balance] set to [50% / 50%]
Mask used (BASE64 PNG encoded)

[MASK]

--- Layer
Parameter [Layer Mode] set to [Blend]
Parameter [Cap Mode] set to [Clip]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Mode] set to [Off]
Parameter [Filter Type] set to [Gaussian Low-pass (Fg)]
Parameter [Blend Amount] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Filter Kernel Radius] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Offset X] set to [0.0 px]
Parameter [Offset Y] set to [0.0 px]
Parameter [Brightness Mask Power] set to [1.0]
--- Super Structure
Parameter [Detail Preservation] set to [Linear Brightness Mask]
Parameter [Compositing Algorithm] set to [Screen]
Parameter [Brightness, Color] set to [Only Color]
Parameter [Brightness Retention] set to [Off]
Parameter [Mask Fuzz] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Airy Disk Radius] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [0.50]
Parameter [Detail Preservation Radius] set to [20.0 px]
Parameter [Saturation] set to [118 %]
Parameter [Strength] set to [100 %]
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Grain Size] set to [5.0 px]
Parameter [Walking Noise Size] set to [1.0 px]
Parameter [Walking Noise Angle] set to [0]
--- Unified De-Noise
Parameter [Scale 1] set to [99 %]
Parameter [Scale 2] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 3] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 4] set to [95 %]
Parameter [Scale 5] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Equalized Grain] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Scale Correlation] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Color Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Brightness Detail Loss] set to [50 %]
Parameter [Grain Dispersion] set to [5.0 px]
--- Photographic Film Development Emulation
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Stars]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [3 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [Off]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [5.0 px]
Undo
Image size is 1634 x 1044
--- Photographic Film Development Emulation
Parameter [White Calibration] set to [Use Stars]
Parameter [Gamma] set to [1.00]
Parameter [Skyglow] set to [2 %]
Parameter [Digital Development] set to [Off]
Parameter [Blue Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Green Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Red Luminance Contrib.] set to [100 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Headroom] set to [5 %]
Parameter [Dark Anomaly Filter] set to [5.0 px]
File saved [C:\Users\stefa\Pictures\ST Forum\M81 82 Freddy\NewComposite.tiff].
The masks were deleted. But it have been only default auto generated masks except for Shrink. There I unmasked M81's core and some structures of M82 which have been masked inadvertently.

Let me know how it goes.

Regards
Stefan
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Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by admin »

Stefan B wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:57 pm @admin Just a short notice: In 1.9 NBAccent there are two 'Back' buttons but no 'Keep' button ;)
Oops. Confirmed. Will be fixed in next release. Thank you!
Stefan B wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:57 pm PS. In the animation the NBAccent introduces quite some noise into the image. I didn't bother keeping the result since I hoped that noise reduction would take care of it. That was the case in my eyes.

PPS. I repeatedly read that people had problems introducing the Ha signal into M81 and M82 simultaneously and thus used different parameters for that (in non ST software). Didn't do that here. Would have been maybe even better.
Thanks to the complete separation of luminance and NB Accent data throughout the processing flow, ST will indeed very aggressively attack any noise introduced by the Ha. :thumbsup:
Ivo Jager
StarTools creator and astronomy enthusiast
fmeireso
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by fmeireso »

Stefan,

Still working on it... :?

Some things i don't understand at first glance : you hit the Nbaccent module BEFORE the color module...? I was under the impression the Nbaccent module had to be used AFTER the color module.

You used the layer module also, for what purpose ?

CS
Freddy
Stefan B
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by Stefan B »

Hi Freddy,
fmeireso wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:19 pm Some things i don't understand at first glance : you hit the Nbaccent module BEFORE the color module...? I was under the impression the Nbaccent module had to be used AFTER the color module.
Have a closer look, I used the Color module before NBAccent. But I used the NBAccent module before the SuperStructure module with the Saturation preset. It's advised to do it the other way round but I prefer it that way so the NBAccent introduced structures get an increased saturation, too.
fmeireso wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:19 pm You used the layer module also, for what purpose ?
Stefan B wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:51 pm The masks were deleted. But it have been only default auto generated masks except for Shrink.
Sorry, that has been obviously not true. I forgot about the mask in the layer module...

When you look at the animation
Image
you see that all the stars get red due to the Ha signal. Doesn't look very appealing to me. And it doesn't add any information to the image. Instead it takes information off the image since it makes all stars red which hides information about the nature of the stars.

So I unmasked the galaxies, went to the layer module and hit the Undo fg (foreground) button. Thus the NBAccent effect was undone on all of the image with the exception of the (unmasked) galaxies. Result: Ha signal in the galaxies but not in the stars (or the rest of the image). Thus you have red stars in the animation but not so much in the final image since I've undone the NBAccent effect on the stars in between.

You can still see some stars with too much red within the galaxies or in close vicinity since I wasn't very careful with the mask.

Does that clarify the issues?

Regards
Stefan
fmeireso
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:46 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: M81 and M82,Nbaccent an ha regions

Post by fmeireso »

Thanks Stefan!

I see now...i mixed up my pages...i printed the log out...text file, pages are not numbered..i just just took them when the printer was finished without paying attention...guess one page got before the other... :doh:
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