OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

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decay
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Location: Germany, NRW

OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by decay »

Hi Ivo (and all),

following the standard ST workflow:

1. Open file
2. OptiDev, while setting IFD to an appropriate value
3. [Bin]
4. [Crop]

5. Wipe
-> The ‘Dark Anomaly Filter’ is automatically set to a distinct value. My assumption is, that this value is derived from the IFD value which was selected in OptiDev (2.) ?

(Side note: if so, could/should this value be corrected by the factor which was used in the Bin module (3.) ? )

6. OptiDev | FilmDev (final stretch)
→ Using FilmDev, the DAF is set to a distinct value; again I guess, this is derived from the IFD setting in (2).
→ Using OptiDev, the IFD setting is switched to ‘off’.

I wonder if it would be helpful to set IFD to the value which was selected in (2). Does this make any sense, or am I on the wrong track … ?

Best regards, Dietmar.
Mike in Rancho
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Location: Alta Loma, CA

Re: OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by Mike in Rancho »

Yeah Dietmar there are all sorts of tie-ins and carry-overs like that, possibly direct or maybe massaged by other factors, maybe even including grain size in NR?

You are right that I don't think the carry-overs scale with Bin, though that's usually done early (?), and IFD may not be typically used for the first OptiDev. I never bother unless there's a compelling reason i.e. I can't see enough to crop properly, or to create a Wipe mask if needed.

That said, even if one carefully selected an IFD for OptiDev 1, and even if it scaled with Bin, I'm not sure you'd want to carry that IFD (or the Wipe DAF) over into OptiDev 2. Reason being, Wipe may have taken care of various things such that you are best off evaluating IFD need from scratch for the final global stretch. :think:
Stefan B
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Re: OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by Stefan B »

Is it really recommended to use IFD during the initial stretch? I never bother with any settings during this stage. I always take what autodev gives me without ROI etc. :think:

Regards
Stefan
decay
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Location: Germany, NRW

Re: OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by decay »

Oh OK, I wouldn’t have thought that it is so unusual to set IFD for the initial stretch. I do it most times to get a first impression of the dataset. Maybe just my datasets are often of such a bad quality that this matters?
Mike in Rancho wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:36 am even if it scaled with Bin, I'm not sure you'd want to carry that IFD (or the Wipe DAF) over into OptiDev 2. Reason being, Wipe may have taken care of various things such that you are best off evaluating IFD need from scratch for the final global stretch.
I’m not sure, Mike. Of course, things may change with Wipe, but from my experience this does not affect IFD too much. And even if so, the IFD from OptiDev 1. may be a much better starting point than starting off from scatch? :think: *

But the main reason for me was more the fact, that this setting is somehow carried over to Wipe and FilmDev, but not to OptiDev 2. So I thought, that this is simply a missing or lost detail in implementation.
Mike in Rancho wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 6:36 am You are right that I don't think the carry-overs scale with Bin, though that's usually done early (?)
Sure, I would say the same. Some time ago I tried to process with high(er) resolution up to SV Decon, as this is often of advantage for SVD and after SVD I used Bin in order to get a better SNR for the following up processing steps. But this resulted in different problems, caused by the changed scale. Not sure, but at least I think so. And I’m afraid, that this is not only true for obvious visible settings like the grain size in NR, but worst case the wrong scale may affect the processing behind the scenes and one does not even know about this.

So if using Bin at later steps is allowed, it may be quite important, that the carry-overs should do scale with Bin ... ? :think:

Best regards, Dietmar.

* edit: I forgot to mention, that I often use Bin as first step, as I often know how much to bin and this reduces processing times for the following up steps ...
hixx
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:36 pm

Re: OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by hixx »

Hi Dietmar,
This might be a non-issue, leaving the IFD after BIN the same value as before BIN is the real issue here
Whether or not You set IFD in the initial stretch, WIPE will always carry over the IFD of the final stretch!

Consequently, If you choose to BIN, You'd have to readjust IFD anyway, so the carry-over will be just fine.
If that step is missed out, IFD is probably set to a non-optimal value

But I agree with Stefan, just do Initial stretch, BIN, Crop, and then IFD in final stretch only...

Clear Skies,
Jochen
decay
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:28 pm
Location: Germany, NRW

Re: OptiDev final stretch ‘Ignore Fine Detail’ (pre-) setting

Post by decay »

Hi Jochen,

my original point is probably not worth talking about - as said, I had the impression that this carry-over is missing and if so, it would be a small fix only. But it isn't important anyway since I'm apparently the only one who is setting IFD while doing the initial stretch ...

More important could be the need to scale any carry-over or likewise resolution-dependent parameters with the use of the BIN module. But it's probably hard to see if and what takes places and so the only one who could tell is Ivo ...

Best regards, Dietmar.
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